We’re days away from the release of ‘A*Pop’ when NME meets a highly energetic Tyla at the chicly minimalist Pan Pacific hotel. “Should the Gucci be in frame?” she questions our videographers, the bounce in her cadence as audacious as her overall demeanour. Like her album title suggests, this is an African popstar – from the walk to the talk to the look, there’s no pretense here. It’s who she’s always wanted to be.
“[Ever] since I was a little girl in South Africa, I was always like, ‘Nah, there has to be a way,’” the 24-year-old says of her ambitions and how her debut single ‘Getting Late’, then mega-hit ‘Water’ got her to national, then world stages. “I was performing in a club, not long before I was performing in an arena. Not long before I was winning a Grammy! Not long before I was on the World Cup stage, you know what I mean.”
On her sophomore album, Tyla looks to shift the lens from world-stages to her Johannesburg roots, letting the world into what a contemporary African popstar could look and feel like. She tells us about working with South African talent, having flipped a regional classic ‘Fairytale’ alongside the prolific Liquideep. “That’s a wedding song,” she exclaims. “It’s a flex having Liquideep on the album.” Alongside them is rising talent MaWhoo, whom Tyla has worked with before. “We literally had a party in a room, and while the party’s going on, while trying to record.”
In our latest edition of In Conversation, Tyla speaks on her ascension, the recording process of ‘A*Pop”, adjusting to fame in the western world, and her intentions as an artist.
Tyla, we are just about a week out from ‘A*Pop’. How do you feel in this moment?
Tyla: “I’m very excited! The anticipation is crazy! Like, oh my gosh. And I’m kind of doing it to myself because I’m doing a countdown…”
And you released the tracklist yesterday. How has the fan reaction been since you released the tracklist?
“It’s cute! I love my Tygers. I love that they are excited about it. They feel like it’s a scavenger hunt, you know? They’re trying to read it, it’s kind of blurry. But it came out officially yesterday. I’m really excited. I’m just curious to see what they think about it. I always love watching their reaction videos on YouTube.”
So you watch them as much as they watch you, basically?
“Yes, I do! I’m a fan of my Tygers.”
“Now that I’m blessed to have been given this opportunity, I want to do everything that little Tyla always wanted to do and was never able to do”
You’ve had this title for so long. It feels like it relates to ‘popiano’ in a way; your first era and what you were trying to do in that sense. And I know you said in previous interviews you felt restricted within normal pop archetypes, and so you created ‘A*Pop’. Talk to me about when that moment came into your head that you wanted to kind of rip the band-aid off and do it your own way.
“I think I’ve always felt that way. Like since I was a little girl in South Africa, I was always like, “Nah, there has to be a way.” Because growing up in South Africa, you’re born around so many different influences, and I feel like I was just so influenced by the world that I felt like the music I wanted to make, I wanted it to be for the world, you know? And in the beginning, I started small and I got better at it, and I got closer to my sound. And that’s when I made my first album with ‘Water’.
“I just feel like I’m just growing as an artist. I’m travelling more, I’m meeting more people, and also last year and this year, I’ve just spent a lot of time just going back to myself and my roots and like remembering, what did Tyla want? What did Tyla like when she was this innocent child, like… you know, mentally? What did she like, and what did she want to do? And that’s what I did with this one. I just went deeper into my roots and my influences and just kind of played with that.”
Credit: Michael DrummondThe topic of conversation when it comes to ‘A*Pop’ is the visuals. Everyone has something to say – your Tygers, commentators, critics. Break down the aesthetic for me, because there’s a lot of neon colors, you’ve got neon nails right now. Talk to me about the aesthetic for you and what this sophomore album represents from a visual point of view.
“Um, you know what’s crazy? Like yesterday I was like, ‘Hmm, I want to change it now.’”
Change it? It’s out in the world right now! You released the tracklist with neon colors and everything!
“I know! And it’s still there, and it’s still what it is. Hey, that’s still ‘A*Pop’. But I’m like, I’m creating this whole thing. Like, why not? You know what I mean? I’m literally creating this whole thing. And now I’m kind of like, ‘Hmm, I want to do more of this. I want to actually do more of that.’ You know, I feel like this album run, I just want to do what I want to do in the moment. And the Tygers, they’re going to experience each version and just have fun with me, you know? It’s not that serious. I don’t think it needs to be a planned thing that you stick to 24/7. Because I’m also not really gimmicky. I don’t like forcing myself to stick to one thing just because it’s an era. I don’t really like that. I like what I like when I like it.”
So on that note, what are some other things that are in the universe? Because we’ve seen the neons, we’ve seen the bright hair, we’ve seen the pink hair that people want from you this era. Talk to me about some other things that you’re inspired by that you feel –that feel “A-pop” that we haven’t seen yet.
“Animation. I’m just tapped more into like me as a child, like things that I’ve loved. And just, eh, I’m now a pop star, I’m going to do what I want to do! You know what I mean? Now I got the opportunity, so the world is like, in my hands. And now that I’m blessed to have been given this opportunity, I want to do everything that little Tyla always wanted to do and was never able to do, you know? So, I’m doing animation, I’m doing something special at home with a theme park. I have a Bratz doll…”
Talk to me about the Bratz doll. How does that moment feel for you and how did it come together?
“Honestly, it’s one of the most exciting things that I’ve ever done. You know, it’s up there with all the big things that I’ve done. Because I’ve always wanted a doll! Like, ever since I was young, I’ve always wanted a doll. And I tweeted that at that time, so I think it’s cool that the Tygers can go back and see like, yo guys, if you say you want something, you can get it.”
Now, we know you released ‘We Wanna Party’ last summer. I remember critics noting that you should’ve released the album then instead of an EP. How long has ‘A*Pop’ actually been finished for, and why did you decide to release it this year if it had been done earlier?
“I finished it this year. But I started it at the beginning of last year. I don’t like being like, ‘OK guys, now it’s time to make my album,’ and like lock in and do it like, ttrrrr! I didn’t want to do that this time. I really wanted to live through the making of it. Initially last year was the plan. But then I felt like it was leaning towards that, where now I have to lock in, make an album, and force it. And I was just like, ‘No, like, I don’t want to do that.’ So then I randomly hit up my team like, ‘Yo guys, I just want to drop a few songs and call it a mixtape.’ And they went crazy because they were like, ‘Um, Tyla, no! First of all, no time. Second of all, why?’
“But it was just something that I wanted to do, because I’m just like, if I really feel like I want to do it, let me do it. Because I need to scratch that itch, you know what I mean? I just wanted to drop a few songs and party. And not even just party on the outside, but more so I just wanna find out what happens. I don’t wanna be afraid, be so strategic. I just wanna live. That was the whole point of it. And while that was happening and I was performing, I got to do an Asia tour!”
How was that?
“Oh my gosh, like that opened my eyes to the world! And I just realised how big the world is and how music just connects you. I fell in love with just culture. I feel like it helped me connect more, because like the language barrier was crazy!”
So connect with global audiences, you mean?
“Yeah, the language barrier was crazy. We didn’t have similar cultures, but I also saw a lot of similarities that we just have as people. We do. And yeah, it was really fun. Playing with the neons and the bobs – I was throwing my bob into the audience! And they were catching it. One time a Tyger found me and he showed up with a bob on! And I was just like, first of all, that’s creepy, but I love it! [Laughs] And yeah, it was just such a cool moment to live in.”
Credit: Catherine LoMedicoFor the fans, are we getting ‘Mr. Media’? Will we ever get ‘Mr. Media’? Will it be a lost file?
“You know, I don’t know. I’ll have to see how I feel.”
You know Tinashe releases stuff on SoundCloud for the fans after like albums and stuff are done – do you feel like you could ever release ‘Mr. Media’? Because I know you teased it, people saw it online, the bobs, etc. etc., and it was coming at a time where you were facing quite a lot of media discussion.
“As usual.”
But do you feel like you could ever release it? Has it been edited? Is the video done?
“I mean… What I will say is that there needs to be a big enough moment. Like if something happens. I feel like there’s been a few things… But I feel like I’ve become so numb to it that it feels like, ‘Eh, another thing. Eh, another thing.’ If there’s something that’s like, ‘Ooh, scandalous pop star, this that that,’ then that’s the time, yeah.”
I feel like you could have dropped it after the Met Gala. It could have been a moment!
“I feel like then it would be corny. Like, what the heck, like why am I trying to profit off of that moment when it was not meant to even be a moment? Like, the heck! So, no. That was – nah, that would have been corny. But if there’s like a scandalous pop star like 2000s type scandal, you know? Like if that naturally happens, then maybe.”
“I never had the opportunity to do small shows… It felt like leaps and leaps. I was forced to grow”
Since ‘Jump’, I’ve felt that you’re a dancehall girl. And on this album we’ve got three dancehall songs, or three dancehall-coded songs. ‘That Girl’ starts the trend off from that. I want to know when you first heard dancehall, and how your relationship with the genre has grown since your career.
“You know, like, I really see, um, Caribbeans as African. I feel very similar to, you know, Caribbean people, like the culture, the food, the dancing. We all love a good time, we are raw, we are honest. I really love that. And growing up in SA, we listen to dancehall in Africa. It’s like, Afrobeats, dancehall. So, I grew up listening to it and I’ve always loved it, you know? It’s just so infectious. Like, I want to dance, I want to whine my hips, I want to whine my waist! Like on TikTok, the dancehall songs, I’m there! Or every trend, I’m there! It’s very natural for me to want to go there.”
And obviously, you’ve collaborated across your career with not only Skillibeng, but Sean Paul as well. Who is your favorite dancehall artist, or who was the first dancehall artist you can remember listening to?
“Mm… first dancehall artist… Artist names in general, names in general, like… Whoa! But songs… You know one song that I really love, it sounds like it’s off key almost. It’s a woman singing it. [Sings] ‘I’m so in love with you…’”
Oh, classic! That’s ‘I’m Still In Love With You’.
“Oh, my word! That song… I’m so mad that that’s not my song. It can’t be my song, but I love that song. That song, and um… uh, Shaggy? Shaggy. My mother is in love with Shaggy. And Sean Paul.”
How was it to collaborate with Sean Paul?
“It was like a childhood pinch-me moment, because Sean Paul – obsessed! And even now, he still feels like the 2000s. He got it! Like, he got the swag down, he’s cool, he’s chill, the voice, he still got it. You know what I mean? And what he did on ‘Push 2 Start’, I love.”
Most of the features on your album are South African, except the lovely Zara Larsson. Why did you decide to hone in on home so much on this album, particularly on the second half?
“You know, it was not intentional. Like, there’s no deep reason. Honestly… I finished the album in South Africa because I really wanted to. I was very specific on that. I really like curating the environments I work in, because it changes what you do. It really does. So I really pushed to do it somewhere where I could just be reminded of places that I used to go when I was younger, my parents used to take us. And that was like our holidays. We never had holidays that were like… Dubai! Our holidays was with bugs, flies, like in the trees, playing and meeting people. I just wanted it to feel like that when I was finishing it, because like I said, as a child, what did I love? I just invited them to the camp, because I’ve worked with Babalwa M before. Her, Mawhoo, Liquideep.
“I just invited them and we were all just making music. Like, we were just making music! And I fell in love with what Babalwa did. And she did it on a different beat, but I was like, ‘Nah, like I need that on this.’ And the way we made it was just so beautiful and it just fit right in. Mawhoo also, we made that song just by literally having a party in a room, and while the party’s going on, we’re trying to record. We’re saying, ‘Everyone shh! Stop talking, stop talking!’ We’re trying to record parts and like, that memory is the reason why I wanted that song. And also her voice, her energy. The song just feels like a memory that I always want to have, so I wanted that on there. And with Liquideep, that’s just the song that I grew up on, and I always wanted to redo that song. I feel like it’s such a wedding song. Like, guys, get married to that song! Guys, if you have a wedding? ‘Fairytale’, by Tyla and Liquideep.”
Credit: Catherine LoMedicoThis energy that you’re giving to me now, it feels like a growth from ‘Tyla’. You’re balancing your sexuality, your confidence as a woman. Even in your lyrics, it feels like you’re just more audacious across this album. Talk to me about that confidence and the arc of it growing across this album. Do you feel like there’s been a development in your songwriting as well?
“Yes. I feel like my life went from this to this overnight. The transition was fast. Very fast. I never had the opportunity to do small shows and grow and grow. Like, I was performing in a club, like, not long before I was performing in an arena. Not long before I was winning a Grammy! Not long before I was on the World Cup stage, you know what I mean? It felt like leaps and leaps. I was forced to grow.
“I think that also just changed my perspective on things, and it just made me want to say different things, and care more about things, care less about things. I feel like now I’m able to like walk in a room and know what I want, know what I want to say, and be confident in that.”
Someone who does show up a lot is Sammy SoSo. I see he’s back. He’s noted as being a core part of that popiano sound, your sound to the world. How did it feel to re-collaborate with him and others like Ari PenSmith, the core team behind the last album?
“I love them. Believve, too. I’ve known him since my first ever songwriting session, whatever it’s called. And he also didn’t do much before he met me. So it felt like we both are like Finneas and Billie. We’re besties! Not only that but sonically, we’ve just grew so much together, and really started it together, this idea of mixing where I’m from and just where I could go.
“And from there we did ‘Water’, and then I met Sammy SoSo, and I met Ari and Mocha [Bands], and we are literally besties. So we always see each other. I see each of them whenever I’m in town, we outside! Like, we do karaoke, we have braais, we chill at the house, we go shisha at the shisha lounge! We’re like family now. So, it’s always fun like just getting back in and making music, cause they know me so well, so it feels very effortless, and we just flow.
“And then, I also met a really good friend of mine now, Bibi Bourelly. She’s insane! She’s crazy. As a person! [Laughs] And as an artist! Like, she’s just so talented, so fire. Dougie, Ian Kirkpatrick, Andre, Poo Bear… Like Poo Bear, I had a session with him and when I was writing with him, I wrote ‘Right Now’ with him. And that was when I was really like starting to be more open to speaking about those things. That’s when it really started and that was like sometime last year. I really knew who I wanted to work with. Even DameDame. Oooh! Those girls, shit. Love them. They’re nasty. I have to get in with them more.
“There are so many talents I’ve worked with, that I’ve built real relationships with – I grew from them. I went into every room open and knowing I don’t know everything, the heck? I’m new, this is only my second album.”
So you’re not afraid to grow. You’re not afraid to be the person learning in the room.
“No, I think that’s what it is to be human. You learn something every day. You’re not going to know everything, you know? There’s always someone that knows more than you. I really respect the people that I work with, I know that I always have something to learn from them. So I think that also made me grow.”
You end the album on ‘Hot Tubs’ and you say something to the effect of, “Whether you like me or don’t, shake, shake your ass to my song. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t.” Do you genuinely feel that way, navigating pop stardom and your new career trajectory?
“Exactly that. Exactly that. I learned that the hard way, because I think in the beginning when I came in, I really was very green. I was just like, ‘Whoa, I’m a pop star now, yay!’ And then, so many things happened that were just lies, like so many lies on my name, and I’m just like, damn, I really can’t go to everyone on this earth and correct this narrative.”
Credit: Catherine LoMedicoI feel like there was a moment in time where you were trying to course-correct, address everything on socials, and took it into your own hands…
“I tried, but it’s a losing battle. Even if they understand something, and even if they agree with something, there’s so many people that just are going to be stubborn, like little sisters, annoying Karens. I can’t change the world and I can’t make the world like me.
So it is damned if you do, damned if you don’t. There’s a lot of narratives that aren’t true, but it’s going to happen my whole career, so I feel like if I try to correct everything, I’m going to just be tired. And I’m already numb to it – or not numb, but checked out.”
What helped check you out from it?
“I don’t know how to explain it, but you know when you’re in a relationship? And let’s say in the beginning they start complaining, ‘Oh, I don’t like you did this, and then you did that, and you did this,’ and then like, ‘I’m sorry!’ You correct. But then it gets to a point where like, ‘Nah, come on now! Ah, I’m checked out.’ You just get drained, like you’re just talking too much now! I’m not meant to be correct 24/7. There are pop stars that can be, and that are doing very well. I commend you! But me, I can’t do that, because I just hate feeling like I have to play a game and chess and all of that. I just don’t like that. I come from Africa. Like… no. That’s not for me.
“So, I think that the song with ‘Hot Tubs’ was a time in my life where I was going through all of that, and I was angry, and I was just like… ‘F this thing! Like, I’m a pop star now, my dreams came true, you know what I mean? I’m living in my dream, let me do that.’”
“I’m not meant to be correct 24/7. There are pop stars that can be, and that are doing very well. I commend you!”
You also released ‘She Did It Again’ with close friend and fellow pop star Zara Larsson. How does it feel to have a collaboration with such a close friend now and confidant in the industry, and how do you feel about both of you becoming new-age pop stars?
“It’s very exciting, you know? I know what it felt like to have a moment where it’s like, bam! I know that she’s feeling really good right now, and we talk so often. Like, late night calls, we’d just be yapping! We just talk talk talk talk talk talk talk, we gossip, we talk about this, that, and everything under the sun! And having a song and a video with her and everything is just fire, it’s like working with your friend. It’s like a group project. Like a friend project, like, ‘Ayyy, let’s go!’ It’s cool, and I like that she’s a pop star for real, you know? Also, I wanted her on ‘A*Pop’. She sticks out like a sore thumb! It’s kinda random but I like that, but I just wanted one pop star on there. I wanted her. I think we can relate in the sense of like we’re not from Hollywood, you know what I mean? She’s from Sweden, I’m from South Africa, and she’s a pop star now, and I’m from South Africa, I’m a pop star now! So, that’s why I really feel like that was a nice ‘A*pop’ touch.”
Beyond release week, what do you want the legacy of ‘A*Pop’ to be, in both your discography, but in the world as well?
“I’m not thinking about legacy, I’m thinking about the 24th of July! I don’t know if I’m thinking about legacy right now. But just that energy of being limitless. I can make anything I want to make, and it’ll always have the ‘A’ in it, because of where I’m from, you know? I’ve just noticed that it’s a thing where it’s if you’re African, you in African categories, and that’s where you are, regardless of what you make. Like, Tems makes R&B music, guys! Like, she makes obviously Afrobeats and stuff, but she’s very diverse. And she does get recognition here and there, but I feel like it’s hard to break out of that.
“With this album, I don’t know what it’s going to do, I don’t know what legacy this, that, and the other, but I knew my intention behind making it was to show that I could make anything, ‘cause I can! We are all limitless. We’re not limited to anything, not where we’re from, our accent, our language. I wanted to do exactly what I wanted to do, and not what people feel like an African pop star should look like, or what an African pop star should sound like. Like… I don’t understand that. It’s just… yeah, it’s just Tyla. ‘A*Pop’ is Tyla.”
Tyla’s ‘A*Pop’ is out now. Her ‘A*Pop’ world tour kicks off October and will land in North America, Europe, the UK and Africa
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